Jailbreak Implemented Some issues, tweaks, and rule contradictions.

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Klayton

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Feb 15, 2020
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General

1. The bomb does way too much damage at a far distance, I think it should only be an instant kill within 256 units radius and lose damage proportionally at -10% damage per 10 units radius.
2. The current beacon system is slightly difficult to deal with, I would recommend making it the right click style of beacon placement and making remove bacon the last option rather than first. I constantly find myself removing beacons and not placing them.
3. Reduce the endscreen at the end of a map's time, it's either a very awkward or very loud 30 or so seconds.
4. Give the warden an option to mute everyone other than themselves for 15 seconds due to mic spam.
5. Add jb_quake's latest version. It is a very popular map elsewhere and will draw us players.
6. Update jb_avalanche.
7. Rename all map files to jb_example_dg to avoid map crashes which hurt player population, such as minecraft 4.2.

Rules
Define "Rebel" in Common Phrases.

Freekill/Freedamage: When a non-rebelling Prisoner is killed/injured by a Guard, respectively.
Remove the "respectively" at the end of these, it is redundant and rules should be as clear as possible.

Trap Command: Commands that can trick Prisoners by causing them to accidentally rebel.
"Commands that can trick Prisoners by causing them to accidentally rebel
or injure themselves."

Guards cannot..… Camp secrets or Restricted Areas.
… Camp secrets or Restricted Areas excluding guard catwalks (we are intended to camp those.)

designated shooter needs to be added into "common phrases." and then highlighted. (#6 in basic rules)


#9, new rides cancel previous orders should be new orders override previous orders. Sometimes orders contradict, but sometimes they can stack. Cancel and override mean two different things, but override is the word you are looking for.

Interfering with another Prisoner’s LR is not allowed if unwanted by your fellow Prisoner.
Should not be allowed at all or both parties should have to agree (ct and t)

As a guard, you must not... play Prisoner games unless it is currently LR unless you are pursuing a rebeller.

As a guard, you must not... go into armory through armory doors unless there is no other route or the other routes take a long time to arrive.
This rule doesn't do anything as of right now. I have not seen anyone enforce it or follow the rule and the rule itself contradicts. I recommend removing it.

Wardens must not... Misleading the Prisoners by using terms that are closely familiar to the one they are waiting for you to say/type, for example: typo's, saying "goat" when awaiting the word "go".
Rather, add a new rule "Do not intentionally confuse or mislead the prisoners.", and use that as an example for it.

Wardens must not.. kill or injure the smallest stacks when you tell Prisoners to unstack shoulder to shoulder.
This rule is not warden specific, yet it is labeled there. It is also redundant and covered by the Nazi CT policy. I would recommend removing it.

Wardens must not... give a Prisoner ST more than once per map.
Map implies the duration of an entire map. "give a Prisoner ST more than once per round." is what you mean.

Wardens must not... force Prisoner’s to AFK Freeze upon arrival to beacon or area unless necessary.
Contradicts itself with a vague exclusion and is covered by the nazi ct policy, therefore redundant. I would recommend removing it.

Wardens must not... give ST if there is less than 8 Prisoners alive.
I can't really think of the point behind this rule. It basically means that for the first few hours every morning there is no ST. I have not seen this followed or enforced. I would just say do not guarantee LR in a new rule, aka having an ST when you have 3 or less prisoners in total.

Wardens must not... give Prisoners a time to LR by.
This allows prisoners to delay the round by not LRing in general. Instead, say "give Prisoners an unreasonable time to LR by."

Special Treatment: ST may last until there two non-rebelling Prisoners or until Warden revokes it.
ST may last until there three non-rebelling Prisoners or until Warden revokes it. This allows wardens to guarantee LR, because as STs are not rebelling they count as one of the two.

Special Treatment: ST cannot be given in exchange for contraband that previously belonged to a Guard.
This means that if a guard is killed and their gun is in stack, they cannot redeem their ST. Instead, say "ST cannot be given in exchange for contraband that was obtained as a result of gun-planting."

Games: Games must not reward Prisoners with a prize to pick more than 20% of Prisoners to die. (Example: winner of Trivia pick's 3 Prisoners to die out of 9).
This means that you cannot play trivia with less than 5 people, which is when it is most commonly played. Instead, say "Games must not reward Prisoners with a prize to pick more than two Prisoners to die."

Games: Rules #5 and #6 contradict directly, with #5 claiming that you cannot "play the same game twice until you have killed half or more.", whereas rule #6 says you cannot kill more than half of the participants. I would simply remove rule 5, playing the same game twice is no fun and would allow a warden to make prisoners play climb etc twice.

Last Request: If prisoner doesn't say any rules, basic rules apply.
Define basic rules.

Grammatical Issues

On multiple occasions, Jailbreak is spelt as Jail Break. Jailbreak is a combined word in English, and is simply spelled Jailbreak.
H&S rule #6, whom should be who.
Warden rule #whatever it is, give st if there ARE less than 8 alive, rather than is.
Warden rule #7, diffrent should be spelled different.
Prisoner rule #7, participating is the correct spelling. Its should be it's.
Prisoner rule #8, insert an "a" before prisoner, so it says "if a prisoner" rather than "if prisoner."
Warden rule #3, chooses keep should be "chooses to keep." Also with "chooses pass" under it needs to be fixed the same way.

_____________________________________________________________


That's it, and if you need help applying these suggestions to the rules I am happy to help or do it all.
 
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Squishy

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1. Bomb is good, but I like it as it is.
2. Yes.
3. Eh... it's fine.
4. No, admins should be the only ones with power to do this. If admins are active, there's no issue.
5. Sure.
6. Ok.
7. Map crashes bad.

Rules:
woah. they all seem like good suggestions.
 
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Klayton

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1. Bomb is good, but I like it as it is.
2. Yes.
3. Eh... it's fine.
4. No, admins should be the only ones with power to do this. If admins are active, there's no issue.
5. Sure.
6. Ok.
7. Map crashes bad.

Rules:
woah. they all seem like good suggestions.
Thank you.

If it isn't obvious, I'm bored. And when I'm bored, I'm productive.
I made a concept art for the rules page. I feel as though information and announcement posts should have a graphic with them in the future.



@Kieran @Alkon if you guys would like me to make more of these, such as for the VIP/Support tab, let me know.​
 
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MaxGentleman

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1. I usually get killed by that, I think it's fine in general, I would not change it.
2. Agreed. I saw this on a server once, if you were shooting at the ground twice and doing a key, it would place a beacon.
3. Select Dust 2 boys
4. I think it's a good idea but I would make it more simple, you talk = mutes everyone except CTs
5. Cool
6. Cool
7. ?

Everything about the rules and grammar is good and cool! Thank you!

I made a concept art for the rules page. I feel as though information and announcement posts should have a graphic with them in the future.

It is pretty! But I feel like the current pages are simple and beautiful as they are right now. Maybe for announcements it would be better to be honest.
 
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Alkon

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I'll look over this when I get home.
 
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Klayton

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2. Agreed. I saw this on a server once, if you were shooting at the ground twice and doing a key, it would place a beacon.

7. ?
For 2, I meant the pG style but that sounds interesting as well. I would stick with pG though.
For 7, it's a technical suggestion. When two maps with the same name have different actual map properties, the map will not load. This can be avoided by making your map names unique. Certain servers will change their maps without changing the names and it will result in this happening, so if you are transferring from another server there is a good chance some maps may not load.
 

waterjug

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Wardens must not... give Prisoners a time to LR by.
This allows prisoners to delay the round by not LRing in general. Instead, say "give Prisoners an unreasonable time to LR by."

I would keep this the way it is. As of right now, prisoners are only allowed 2 minutes to LR. Most of the time if there are a lot of people on the server and the round makes it to LR, usually there will be a decent amount of CTs left. This makes it difficult to even win the round as Ts by being limited to 2 minutes. At the end of the day, its only 2 minutes and if you make it to LR you should be free to do what you want with those 2 minutes.

Special Treatment: ST cannot be given in exchange for contraband that previously belonged to a Guard.
This means that if a guard is killed and their gun is in stack, they cannot redeem their ST. Instead, say "ST cannot be given in exchange for contraband that was obtained as a result of gun-planting."

This is perfectly fine the way it is as well. Clearly states that if you obtain a dead CTs weapon, you are not allowed to be given ST for it. In your new definition of it, you say "gun-planting" which is not what that is. Gun-Planting is defined as a CT intentionally giving away their weapon to the Ts in order for them to rebel.
 
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Lembo

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Anything I didn't reply to I either agree, or didn't feel strongly enough about to mention. Also RIP the formatting and coloring I copied your post over in notepad and commented on there so oops

General
1. The bomb does way too much damage at a far distance, I think it should only be an instant kill within 256 units radius and lose damage proportionally at -10% damage per 10 units radius.
I don't really see this as an issue, the distance seems pretty fair to me. I've seen T's fail at this more than enough times to be confident in this.

2. The current beacon system is slightly difficult to deal with, I would recommend making it the right click style of beacon placement and making remove bacon the last option rather than first. I constantly find myself removing beacons and not placing them.
I agree to some extent that the beacon system can be troublesome, not to mention how many times I've died because my menu was open and couldn't switch weapons lol, but I'm not sure how optimized this can get since it is a plugin, though I'm open to ideas.

3. Reduce the endscreen at the end of a map's time, it's either a very awkward or very loud 30 or so seconds.
Yes please. No more "vote inferno LOLOLOL FUNNY"

4. Give the warden an option to mute everyone other than themselves for 15 seconds due to mic spam.
This shouldn't be a big issue and I could see attempted fixes for this causing more problems than solving them. If someone is being really troublesome, they should just be muted by admins, which generally are on at most times. As we get more admins this will be less of an issue I feel.

5. Add jb_quake's latest version. It is a very popular map elsewhere and will draw us players.
I haven't seen this but new maps are always fun.

6. Update jb_avalanche.
Do you mean have someone update the map ourselves, or is there newer versions already made that we don't use? Same thing as for number 5 pretty much.

7. Rename all map files to jb_example_dg to avoid map crashes which hurt player population, such as minecraft 4.2.
I don't know about this issue really that's more Kieran's wheelhouse.

Rules
Guards cannot..… Camp secrets or Restricted Areas.
… Camp secrets or Restricted Areas excluding guard catwalks (we are intended to camp those.)
I don't feel that this is really necessary, adding an "exception" explicitly to this may lead to more confusion.

designated shooter needs to be added into "common phrases." and then highlighted. (#6 in basic rules)
Not sure if necessary, warden is always designated shooter unless told otherwise and issues with this can be considered accidental freekills (such as killing the wrong T or what have you)

Interfering with another Prisoner’s LR is not allowed if unwanted by your fellow Prisoner.
Should not be allowed at all or both parties should have to agree (ct and t)
Disagree, it's in the nature of T's to cause trouble for the guard

As a guard, you must not... play Prisoner games unless it is currently LR unless you are pursuing a rebeller.
More of a nitpicking thing, as this is kind of assumed

As a guard, you must not... go into armory through armory doors unless there is no other route or the other routes take a long time to arrive.
This rule doesn't do anything as of right now. I have not seen anyone enforce it or follow the rule and the rule itself contradicts. I recommend removing it.
My personal recommendation here is to alter the rule to state something to the effect of "Guards may only pursue armory through entrances they have witnessed a prisoner using" such as following through vent, and waiting for prisoners to leave armory or open the door to use it.

Wardens must not.. kill or injure the smallest stacks when you tell Prisoners to unstack shoulder to shoulder.
This rule is not warden specific, yet it is labeled there. It is also redundant and covered by the Nazi CT policy. I would recommend removing it.
Can be used an an example of being a Nazi instead of a dedicated rule, though it was pretty common to do this before the server re-opened so I feel it may have needed to be specified as its own rule

Wardens must not... give a Prisoner ST more than once per map.
Map implies the duration of an entire map. "give a Prisoner ST more than once per round." is what you mean.
I personally feel like ST as a whole needs to be reworked as there are some issues with it

Wardens must not... give Prisoners a time to LR by.
This allows prisoners to delay the round by not LRing in general. Instead, say "give Prisoners an unreasonable time to LR by."
I disagree, there is 2 minutes left in the round once LR is active, and that time can and should be used how the last two T's like

Games: Rules #5 and #6 contradict directly, with #5 claiming that you cannot "play the same game twice until you have killed half or more.", whereas rule #6 says you cannot kill more than half of the participants. I would simply remove rule 5, playing the same game twice is no fun and would allow a warden to make prisoners play climb etc twice.
It's quite late when I'm posting this, so I'll just say that this is more aimed at say colors or jump rope, meaning that a game can be started back up if you haven't killed half of the T's yet. It is my interpretation that you aren't meant to revisit a game later, more that if a game ends prematurely by accident or what not, you can continue to 50% of T's
 
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Klayton

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Just a few comments on misunderstandings etc

5. Add jb_quake's latest version. It is a very popular map elsewhere and will draw us players.
I haven't seen this but new maps are always fun.
6. Update jb_avalanche.
Do you mean have someone update the map ourselves, or is there newer versions already made that we don't use? Same thing as for number 5 pretty much.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=934249546 - the map has been updated by its creator, thorgot.
Rules
Guards cannot..… Camp secrets or Restricted Areas.
… Camp secrets or Restricted Areas excluding guard catwalks (we are intended to camp those.)
I don't feel that this is really necessary, adding an "exception" explicitly to this may lead to more confusion.
I think the confusion created by contradicting the definition of a restricted area outweighs it. I also don't see what confusion this would make.

designated shooter needs to be added into "common phrases." and then highlighted. (#6 in basic rules)
Not sure if necessary, warden is always designated shooter unless told otherwise and issues with this can be considered accidental freekills (such as killing the wrong T or what have you)
Simply suggesting a definition, and I do not think warden is always designated. It says that he is when he says he is from what I can see. Defining a term will not result in additional freekills, it will reduce them by deleting confusion.
As a guard, you must not... play Prisoner games unless it is currently LR unless you are pursuing a rebeller.
More of a nitpicking thing, as this is kind of assumed
I am not nitpicking anything, rules need to be perfect otherwise they can be loopholed or exploited. Nothing in the rules should ever be assumed and it is quite dangerous to suggest it. It is certainly a necessary addition, one of the most certain of the list. As of right now, it is illegal to pursue a rebeller in a game and a simple addition to the rules would fix it. Nitpicking is never a rule that should apply to rules, you make them to be followed not to be assumed.

No intention of coming off harsh, i'm just trying to stress the importance of certain things.
 
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Alkon

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As for your first points;

1. The bomb is good as it is. Makes CTs bait less, given the fact detonation times are quite long and vary does make it a bit more balanced. Should not change.
2. Not necessarily a right click but maybe reorganise a bit like it used to be at the beginning or perhaps let users customize it?
3. Yes, please.
4. Do like the idea, maybe tickle with duration a bit.
5. Sure
6. Heard it's a good version.
7. Would love to see that actually.


Regarding rules;

Freekill/Freedamage -> Can change

Trap Command: Commands that can trick Prisoners by causing them to accidentally rebel.
"Commands that can trick Prisoners by causing them to accidentally rebel or injure themselves."
-> It is stated under freekill rule that guard may not do that in some way, haven't seen any problems with it yet so don't think it needs changing.

Guards cannot..… Camp secrets or Restricted Areas.
… Camp secrets or Restricted Areas excluding guard catwalks (we are intended to camp those.)
-> Okay sure you can go about it like that but as long as player has IQ above room temperature (in celsius ofc) it should be common sense.

designated shooter needs to be added into "common phrases." and then highlighted. (#6 in basic rules) -> I really don't see why it should be, it's rarely used and on rules it's only mentioned once.

#9, new rides cancel previous orders should be new orders override previous orders. Sometimes orders contradict, but sometimes they can stack. Cancel and override mean two different things, but override is the word you are looking for. -> Should really be common sense but since it's only one word sure it can be changed.

Interfering with another Prisoner’s LR is not allowed if unwanted by your fellow Prisoner.
Should not be allowed at all or both parties should have to agree (ct and t)
-> I think that is good as it is right now, no point in saying both parties should agree to interfering since CT's are not allowed because it is rebelling if you do so.

As a guard, you must not... play Prisoner games unless it is currently LR unless you are pursuing a rebeller. --> Should really be common sense but since it's only a few words sure it can be changed.

As a guard, you must not... go into armory through armory doors unless there is no other route or the other routes take a long time to arrive.
This rule doesn't do anything as of right now. I have not seen anyone enforce it or follow the rule and the rule itself contradicts. I recommend removing it.
-> *CT hears a T in armory, quickly turns around, opens it and shoots him* That way a T has really no chance to do anything since he gets killed before he could even pick up a weapon.

Wardens must not... Misleading the Prisoners by using terms that are closely familiar to the one they are waiting for you to say/type, for example: typo's, saying "goat" when awaiting the word "go".
Rather, add a new rule "Do not intentionally confuse or mislead the prisoners.", and use that as an example for it
-> I think this is better explained our way tbh.

Wardens must not.. kill or injure the smallest stacks when you tell Prisoners to unstack shoulder to shoulder.
This rule is not warden specific, yet it is labeled there. It is also redundant and covered by the Nazi CT policy. I would recommend removing it.
-> I like this because it lets me CT ban someone for doing so without much arguing. Can be moved to CT section thought.

Wardens must not... give a Prisoner ST more than once per map.
Map implies the duration of an entire map. "give a Prisoner ST more than once per round." is what you mean.
-> Can be changed.

Wardens must not... force Prisoner’s to AFK Freeze upon arrival to beacon or area unless necessary.
Contradicts itself with a vague exclusion and is covered by the nazi ct policy, therefore redundant. I would recommend removing it.
-> Same explanation as for killing smaller stacks.

Wardens must not... give ST if there is less than 8 Prisoners alive.
I can't really think of the point behind this rule. It basically means that for the first few hours every morning there is no ST. I have not seen this followed or enforced. I would just say do not guarantee LR in a new rule, aka having an ST when you have 3 or less prisoners in total.
-> Could remove that and add to ST rules; ST cannot guarantee LR.

Wardens must not... give Prisoners a time to LR by.
This allows prisoners to delay the round by not LRing in general. Instead, say "give Prisoners an unreasonable time to LR by."
-> What @waterjug said.

Special Treatment: ST may last until there two non-rebelling Prisoners or until Warden revokes it.
ST may last until there three non-rebelling Prisoners or until Warden revokes it. This allows wardens to guarantee LR, because as STs are not rebelling they count as one of the two.
-> Can be changed.

Special Treatment: ST cannot be given in exchange for contraband that previously belonged to a Guard.
This means that if a guard is killed and their gun is in stack, they cannot redeem their ST. Instead, say "ST cannot be given in exchange for contraband that was obtained as a result of gun-planting." -> Could further be confused, there are other means of obtaining a weapon from Guard, not only gun plant.

Games: Games must not reward Prisoners with a prize to pick more than 20% of Prisoners to die. (Example: winner of Trivia pick's 3 Prisoners to die out of 9).
This means that you cannot play trivia with less than 5 people, which is when it is most commonly played. Instead, say "Games must not reward Prisoners with a prize to pick more than two Prisoners to die." -> When talking about trivia it has it's own section which says that one T can alwas die. Using a bit of common sense would make someone understand that trivia specific rule is above this one.

Games: Rules #5 and #6 contradict directly, with #5 claiming that you cannot "play the same game twice until you have killed half or more.", whereas rule #6 says you cannot kill more than half of the participants. I would simply remove rule 5, playing the same game twice is no fun and would allow a warden to make prisoners play climb etc twice. ->In theory, it might be a bit confusing but this rule was made so if let's say warden is playing colo and he stops before he killed 50% - with this rule he can still play it until 50% are dead. Played on a server a long time with this one and soo far there were 0 problems.

Last Request: If prisoner doesn't say any rules, basic rules apply.
Define basic rules.
-> A bit hard to define all ''basic rules'', using a bit of common sense can resolve that, never really had any problems in practice.


Grammatical Issues

On multiple occasions, Jailbreak is spelt as Jail Break. Jailbreak is a combined word in English, and is simply spelled Jailbreak.
H&S rule #6, whom should be who.
Warden rule #whatever it is, give st if there ARE less than 8 alive, rather than is.
Warden rule #7, diffrent should be spelled different.
Prisoner rule #7, participating is the correct spelling. Its should be it's.
Prisoner rule #8, insert an "a" before prisoner, so it says "if a prisoner" rather than "if prisoner."
Warden rule #3, chooses keep should be "chooses to keep." Also with "chooses pass" under it needs to be fixed the same way.
-> Will fix all.


Since you are that interested in rules, I would welcome you in the rule assistant position, which has previously taken by @The First Axiom who isn't as much active anymore.
 
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Alkon

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Went over the rules and made some little changes that should help clarify them.
No gameplay elements were changed.

I am still open to hear your thoughts on his first 7 general suggestions.
 
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Klayton

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Went over the rules and made some little changes that should help clarify them.
No gameplay elements were changed.

I am still open to hear your thoughts on his first 7 general suggestions.
Thanks for going over them with me, everyones opinions were accounted for and only wording and grammatical issues were changed.

For those who don't want to scroll up, the original suggestions were:

So far, this is the community's take on each suggestion:

1. The bomb does way too much damage at a far distance, I think it should only be an instant kill within 256 units radius and lose damage proportionally at -10% damage per 10 units radius. {Community wants to keep it!}
2. The current beacon system is slightly difficult to deal with, I would recommend making it the right click style of beacon placement and making remove bacon the last option rather than first. I constantly find myself removing beacons and not placing them. {Needs to be reworked.}
3. Reduce the endscreen at the end of a map's time, it's either a very awkward or very loud 30 or so seconds. {Needs to be shortened.}
4. Give the warden an option to mute everyone other than themselves for 15 seconds due to mic spam. {Either rework my suggestion or don't add it.}
5. Add jb_quake's latest version. It is a very popular map elsewhere and will draw us players. {Add it.}
6. Update jb_avalanche. {Add it.}
7. Rename all map files to jb_example_dg to avoid map crashes which hurt player population, such as minecraftbeta 4.2. {I don't know anything about this but it seems like a good idea, let's do it.}
 
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Alkon

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All the rule suggestions have been look over and were implemented respectively. Regarding your other suggestions, we already implemented some and the others we didn't we don't feel like changing / might be changed in the future.
 
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